I have this question at least once a day right now! I agree spot on with everything Trevor has said, in addition-

In regards to the vaccine itself, the manufacturing of the vaccine is reported to have been done exactly as the seasonal flu, the only difference being it contains only the H1N1 strain instead of the 17-18 strains the seasonal flu vaccine contains.

That having been said, my personal opinion is if people are planning to get the seasonal flu vaccine, then they should also get H1N1, unless they are concerned about the double exposure to the chemical components and preservatives in the vaccines. If they are choosing only H1N1 and not seasonal flu, they are not being given the appropriate informed consent information or education by the medical staff.

At this point, the risks of complications (mainly hospitalization due to serious illness or death) from the current strain of H1N1 are not any greater than that of the seasonal flu we see every year. If the concern for a more virulent strain manifests increasing the risks, the current vaccine may not be effective anyhow.

Looking at it from a public health & epidemiologic perspective, which is the perspective of the CDC and other government agencies, the concern is at the community level, not the individual level. Though H1N1 is extremely contagious due to the limited number of people who have had past exposure and therefore garnered immunity, it is not extremely virulent, most people, even healthcare providers, cannot tell the difference between H1N1 infection and typical flu or even other respiratory viruses without testing. The current diagnosis is often made based on timing and if there are known infections in the area, and currently testing individuals with flu-like symptoms for H1N1 is not being recommended due to the unnecessary cost, unless they are in a group at increased risk of complication. The concern on the community level is that when the virus is introduced, it may spread very quickly causing large percentages of a community to fall ill at once resulting in school closures, health clinic closures, etc. placing possible hardship on communities and families for whom missing work, having kids home from school can cause big financial strain.

Reports to the medical community from government health agencies are recommending that 'target groups' should be receiving the vaccine (healthcare workers, school employees, those at increased risk of complication) just like the seasonal flu, though they are planning on making it available to anyone who requests it, again, just like seasonal flu.

When patients ask me about it, I give them some of the facts I have and have them think about their apprehension of getting the vaccine vs. that of getting the flu and use that to guide their decision. Sometimes once they hear information that is not media driven hype, the decision becomes easier and less scary.

 Looking at the comments I am in total disagreement. We have to be careful that the opinions we give, if professional, are actually informed and not just our gut feeling.

We just had a 13 year old completely healthy boy die of the H1N1 virus in a matter of hours here in Ontario.

This is not like other flu viruses because it kills not the sick like the regular flu, but it kills otherwise healthy people.

The amount of mercury in the thimerasol preservative in the vaccine is less than in a can of tuna. Would you think twice about a eating a can of tuna if it might save your life or the life of the sick patients you treat?

Research on mercury exposure find the danger being at repeated daily exposure to medium to high level doses. This shot is neither repeated daily for months or at a level even approaching "medium"

It does not circumvent our immune systems it actually helps our immune system work the way it usually does through protein recognition and the building of immune resistance just like getting a regular flu.

Yes, it is a shot and not a nasal or mouth spray like we normally encounter the virus, however an intramuscular shot is not the same as an intravenous shot directly into the blood stream. My opinion is that this is not the blood level.

Also, as health care providers, it all comes down to spelling out the harm to benefit ratio for our patients. What are the chances of a potential problem happening from the shot versus from getting the flu because you didn't get the shot.

All the studies debunk the popular myths in complimentary medicine of linking autism, gulf war syndrom etc with vaccinations.

I am all for building your Wei and Zheng Qi to avoid the flu in the first place and treating with herbs, cupping and needling. However it looks like this virus kills people with healthy Wei Qi. Chinese medicine was around in China while 100, 000's of people died/die from infectious viral diseases. 

Kaleb

 Here is a good story that the CBC news website posted- http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/10/28/f-vaccination-debate.html

the basic gist:

"We're giving the vaccine for something that isn't that severe and we don't know if it is effective. That's the story." Dr. Jim Wright (UBC)

Case in point.

Trevor

 I just looked at the updated CBC news site, and what does it say?

"Provinces to get less vaccine next week."

So it seems that certain members of our society preach about running out to get a vaccine, for unproven protection, and create a massive world wide fear that unless they get the vaccine they are in grave danger. And then what? Well there just isn't enough to go around folks. Sorry you waited in such agonizing anticipated anxiety, all day long, in a long line-up, for your shot- before we closed the doors in front of your face and told you to come back next week when, "there will be even less vaccine available."

Come on people! We have to educate people that if they don't get the, unproven, vaccine that most likely they will be okay. This is the stats! That the fear and panic that the mainstream media has installed in them may be worse than the flu itself!

And then I learn today that doctors are being advised to not do swabs, because the labs will be swamped, and it is too much money for the test. Which to me, seems contradictory during a so-called pandemic time, seeing as it would probably be logical to actual track "confirmed" cases of this pandemic, which was proven by the CBS to be easily mistaken for other non-flu like problems. 

So now it is up to the GP's discretion to decide if their patient really has H1N1 or not? Hmmm.... Seems like a pretty fishy way to determine pandemic statistics if you ask me.

Trevor

 Kaleb, 

I'm not sure I understand your comment...I don't see any posts that imply giving our opinion to our patients is appropriate. It seems the general consensus is to let them make their own decisions, providing information and education of the current facts when appropriate.

It is heartwrenching to hear the story of the young boy you referenced; I can understand why you might react to this story with fear and feel so strongly about the vaccine. However, there are many factors in this case we do not have. The preliminary reviews by the medical examiners have shown there may have been some long term compromised lung function that may have been untreated. The medical personal involved in this case, as well as others have stated that death of healthy children from the flu, whether it is H1N1 or seasonal, is an extremely rare event.

Stating that the vaccine would have saved his life (the tuna reference) is a big assumption when we do not know if the vaccine actually protects against H1N1 nor if it would have provided protection in an individual who responded so strongly to the virus. Though vaccinations and Jenner's ingenuity in discovering the process have probably saved a great many lives from devastating disease, sometimes certain ones just don't take effect in particular individuals. Further, this young boy is suspected to have had a secondary bacterial infection in his heart since his symptoms didn't begin to resolve by the 4th day, not unusual in this type of progression. Had different steps been taken earlier, such as beginning abx when the symptoms didn't begin to decrease after 48-72 hours (which I believe is pretty standard practice by many MD's here in the states) the outcome may have been different.

It is a great disservice to our patients if we build upon any already existing fear by retelling mass media stories for which we do not have all the information. We should be providing factual information to further the education of our patients so they can make informed decisions on their own. Using fear to persuade a patient to get a vaccine they have apprehension about (as the media often does) sounds like malpractice to me. This is exactly the type of behavior many of us have been putting energy into changing by demanding transparency in healthcare and proper informed consent that educates patients based on the current, known facts.

Why not treat it using the 4 levels - see Maciocia

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=115554021289&ref=mf

 I suspect we have forgotten that only those unwell get ill.

Where is the debate on how to IMPROVE one’s being?
As someone who used to work with those dying of AIDS 15 years ago, and one who has been teaching natural therapists for nearly three decades (as we really are all natural therapists - working WITH not against the body), it seems very odd to me that this discussion is not about enhancing wellness.

Working through fear and ignorance is one way – but we can do better surely?

We have SO many tools at our disposal - I have great Chinese pills that were designed to knock SARS and bird flu on the head.  Taken 3 every hour – they work brilliantly – and often only two doses . ..  they sorted out my adolescent son's acute and very virulent Glandular Fever (mononucleosis) in 3 1/2 days - and the trick was the dosage - THREE every hour. (Plus Zinc and Vit C and a few treatments - but mainly the anti viral/immune enhancing herbal pills).  I handed these out to all my patients here in Australia and NZ during the winter and everyone was well – when they caught whatever - the illness goes very quickly with the appropriate treatment – and the anti flu pharmacuetical one is not what I am suggesting . ..

At the height of our flu season, I had one woman rung me very distressed as her 8 year old was MISDIAGNOSED with swine flu – when it was patently a vaccine reaction – and another her 6 year old was MISDIAGNOSED with swine flu – and started the Tamaflu injections out of fear – it was just where usual end of winter chest infection . . . so there is a lot of paranoia medically driven.  Why are we sitting on the fence/hiding behind this mediocrity and not using our own medicine?

Those who practicing in acupuncture over 25 years ago will remember before HRT and before anti inflammatories and before IVF and assisted reproduction technologies – life was so much easier when there was no drug/proceedure to be sold off  - instead self responsibility and changing what is actually causation had to happen.

So we may be debating at the level of herd fear/ignorance - as biomedicine seems to be.  What about the simple things like being happy, rested, well nourished?

Of course we all fall over when stressed/overcrowded.

Some of these apparently ‘healthy’ young kids more than likely have been vaccinated excessively.  I know my son was only jabbed for 3 things – and at 13/14 YEARS of age – up until then he didn’t ‘catch’ any diseases/colds /flus at all – he was so much more well than those all around him who were vacca-nated - before their immune systems were functional. . . .   there is very definitely a case for NOT vaccinating until kids are much older so their own inner resources work as nature intended.  Then there is the issue of sufficient good nutrition - esp when developing/ maturing – has anyone really researched the ‘wellness’ of the young ones dying? Absence of disease is not wellness . . .

Regarding mercury – it is CUMULATIVE and highly toxic.  Mainlining instead of through the gut is not a good thing .. .. and then there is the age of the ones whose mothers are pregnant/ conned into thinking that poisons as oppsed to wellness will protect their fetuses. 

What with those with a vested interest doing the trials - there is no mention of  a real placebo – those getting just a shot of saline as opposed to the entire swine jab and to compare - the swine flu concoction in totol minus the actual swine flu bit  - then we would see results that would NOT look safe at all.

So going back to wellness - how well REALLY was the lad who died? We could test to see if the iron saturation levels may be too low – and this alone allows entry of viruses and then immune system not working to optimum . Biomedicine could use its own markers . . . . if it were perhaps not so retail orientated, and more public health concerned.

Heather Bruce www.easybabies.com.au www.sharpen-up-your-results.com

AcuGuru

Was watching Global News this morning and they were interviewing Bill Cosby.  

The host asked Bill Cosby if he will be getting his H1N1 vaccine this afternoon.  Bill says he will not be getting the vaccine because he is seeing his Doctor of Chinese Medicine and receiving acupuncture.  With the help of his Chinese Medicine Doctor he was keeping his immune system strong.

Just thought it was interesting  !

I want to thank everyone for their comments and research on this topic.  I have spent many hours researching this information as well.  The more I dig the more disturbed I become.  Just reviewing the National Vaccine Information Centres web site as well as Dr Mercolas constant updates is enough to drive that healthy skepticism in all of us.  I feel as alternative health care providers we should share these web sites with our patients.  I have three children and am not completely anti vaccine.  I am however concerned with government plans on perhaps mandating vaccines taking away personal choice in healthcare.  Getting us all to line up and  "drinking the koolaid".

just don t feel that giving a vaccine for something that is a mild virus to young children who will then not ever experience a flu is setting them up to vunerablilty when a real pandemic hits.  I have a blog on my web page on this very topic (which I m sure we  all at this point do)  In the meantime..I hope you can open this link.  Bobby Kennedy jr  h1n1 on youtube...if you can t open the link then just go google it under the heading.

Let s keep our patients healthy and informed

Respectfully,

Lisa Greene R.Ac

Traditional Chinese Medicine

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bobby+kennedy+jr+h1n1&search_type=&aq=f

Sorry its in here twice, I didn t think the first entry took, anybody knowhow to delete one of my entries?

Thanks

Lisa Greene

R.Ac Traditional Chinese Medicine.

The new version of healthcare demands the official line, be the the only opinion available. Public Health in Canada has a long and painful history self described as advocacy to improve health conditions. That falls flat when their voices are raised above the voices of experience and logical analysis. H1N1 as with many of their campaigns of the past are not promoted with the kind of science the public is used to, measured by consistent reproducibility rather the statistical proof of pre-drawn conclusions said to be epidemiological. However the methods do not challenge the null but exaggerate the meaning of any chance reference above the null. By this slight of hand or redirection of the tongue with focus groups to maximize the effect. Enstrom and Kabat illuminates convincingly the measure of balance available when the numbers do not coincide with the prescribed agenda.

Public Health express promotional contempt for biomedical sciences, and as an industry has grown to a force which now dominates the airwaves, our government agencies and our information streams, which direct our responses and influence all of our decisions.  None more predominantly than their own superiority and entitlement.

The 13 year old boy said to have died by H1N1 which sparked a media storm and terrified tens of thousands of parents. Was claimed in the media, long before it was even physically possible to discern what actually killed him, to have died of H1N1.

The options on the table which predominantly include viral pneumonia and Rye syndrome, were never investigated and the same advocates funded by both our taxes and the private drug company interests, who profit most as "stakeholders" in the process also decided no autopsy was necessary, because the cause of death was already established.

How much more corrupted can the heath care system become, before someone with enough influence to even be heard at this point, can  be persuaded to say "enough" and successfully face the legions, who will attack with ad hominid insults by press relaese,  against anyone who dares to attempt to, bring this insanity back under our control.

Toronto Public Health and its international ties direct the same type of rumor mill process used by the Catholic Church in the crusades which was intent on wiping the earth clean of the Pagan religion as though it were a disease. The same process which burned witches in Salem and the Same group precisely who promoted Eugenics and now pines for the loss of influence they sustained after Hitler was defeated. They are now busy advocating for the hatred of anyone who chooses to smoke a cigarette today. Using Hitlers very rhetoric and the same form of corrupted and cherry picked epidemiological "science" no less, to divide us upon ourselves.

The Public health groups at the forefront of tobacco scare mongering, include directly the RWJF charity who hold millions of shares in Johnson and Johnson. Who conveniently sell billions in ineffective alternative nicotine products, such as smoking patches and gum. Indirectly by the medical charities who are funded by similar Industrial charity foundations. Holding current assets in excess of 10 trillion tax exempted dollars and who also conveniently represent the interests of Drug, Oil and Petrochemical companies. Who are no doubt very relieved to see, that we all agree that all cancers and heart disease are caused by smoking or second hand smoke.

It goes without saying the persistence processes by Health Intervention Assessment[HIA] and Environmental Impact Assessment [EIA] being taught and described at the World Health Organization [WHO], should be an issue of grave concern. That concern should be largely enhanced by the recent announcements of WHO partnerships with virtually every major corporate interest on the planet. Its where all the smart money is going.

You are enslaved by these partnerships, permanently, with legally binding agreements to never jeopardize your partners financial interests. Recent independent WHO reports have described the relationships as "institutional capture". I say this with the utmost respect of all parties involved, but I can not help but evaluate the once descriptive term of Mussolini's politics as "Industrial Socialism" and can no longer resist but to connect the dots.

Expression of medical advice belongs among those who are trained in medicine and should never be overshadowed by those trained only in communications or those connected to a larger fortune by which to communication that information.

It is time the media took up it's responsibility to balanced journalism and left medical issue to those qualified to discuss them. Few of which are among those with the largest voice today.

I think that people should go through the vaccination of H1N1 for sure. Its the most common cause of death in south east Asia as well as in Africa. Inappropriate and late treatment can lead a patient of swine flu towards death. Moreover, recent research conducted by Australian Medical Locums shows the same thing.